My zero-defect Vista - let the flames begin!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Henry
  • Start date Start date
* Frank:
> MICHAEL wrote:
>
>> Frank wrote:
>>
>>> Alias wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23v$a1ayyHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Oi3JbtuyHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what I
>>>>>>>>>> call Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>>>>>>>>> Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>>>>>>>> False.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Windows 95 had how many version updates? 3?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Windows 98 and then Windows 98SE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XP and SP2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ill informed drivel snipped.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>> WOW only 3 how many versions has UBUNTU had like 100 or so. Well
>>>>>>> maybe they will get it in about 20 or so years.
>>>>>> LOL! Not the same thing, sorry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>> Oh I forgot about your double standard.
>>>>>
>>>> Ubuntu comes out with a new stable build every six months for free. MS
>>>> comes out with buggy betas and foists them on the public for a high
>>>> price. If you read the Ubuntu forums, the questions are about how to use
>>>> or configure Ubuntu not "OE lost all my messages" or "My computer keeps
>>>> rebooting" like with XP and Vista. See the difference or are you blind?
>>>>
>>>> I've been using Ubuntu now for over nine months and I've been using XP
>>>> Pro SP2 with all the updates except WGA/N since '02 and I have to say
>>>> that Ubuntu is much more solid and much more of a pleasure to use.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>> You're an admitted liar! Go spread your stupid, insidious lies somewhere
>>> else.
>>> BTW, got that phone number yet?
>>> Lying linux lose.
>>> Frank
>>
>> This is for you, Frank: 1-800-GET-HELP
>
> So michael, that absolves alias from his lying ways?
> I don't think so!
> Frank

Absolution is a personal matter.


-Michael
 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 01:18:23 -0500, "GO"
<aa533@remove.this.chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:

>Frank wrote:
>> Alias wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what I call
>>> Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>>
>> Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>> Here's the problem junior...drivers...software/hardware manufacturers
>> have literally had years to develop drivers for Vista for their
>> products. Yet at Vista's RTM many major software/hardware
>> manufacturers were just beginning to develop and release drivers for
>> Vista.
>> As a prime example, Nvidia video drivers have been notoriously bad for
>> months after Vista went RTM and are still somewhat buggy.
>> So the only beta testing Vista owners are doing is mainly for the
>> crappy drivers from software/hardware manufacturers.
>> Same thing goes on with every newly released os, Windows, Mac, linux
>> all of them.
>> Problem is, Windows owns the desktop market so bad drivers affect more
>> users.
>> Frank
>>
>
>I've actually been curious about this. I realize that some of Vista's
>problems are related to third-party developers, but why is this so? Why is
>it that they've taken so long to get properly functioning drivers out for
>Vista? Vista was in final beta and RC mode for quite a long time, more
>than enough time for hardware developers. It would seem to be in their best
>interest to create functional drivers for Vista for it's release. Are
>drivers that much more difficult to create for Vista? Is MS not providing
>enough information to developers to create proper drivers?

The problem any developer will tell you is Microsoft has a nasty habit
of making changes to the soon to be released "final" version of
Windows at the last minute which has caught third party vendors flat
footed.

One example in this round was Roxio's Easy Media Creator 9 suite, a
popular DVD burning package. They had a feature called 'drag and
drop', it had been tested and PASSED testing then when the public
"final" version of Vista was released it broke this feature causing
Easy Media to cause Vista to generate a error message, while it didn't
effect performance of the rest of the suite of applications. This is
classic Microsoft. Explains why a lot of majors like Adobe, Epson, HP
for many of their printers have in effect given Vista the cold
shoulder treatment at least until things settle down
 
GO wrote:
> Frank wrote:
>> Alias wrote:
>>
>>> All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what I call
>>> Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>> Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>> Here's the problem junior...drivers...software/hardware manufacturers
>> have literally had years to develop drivers for Vista for their
>> products. Yet at Vista's RTM many major software/hardware
>> manufacturers were just beginning to develop and release drivers for
>> Vista.
>> As a prime example, Nvidia video drivers have been notoriously bad for
>> months after Vista went RTM and are still somewhat buggy.
>> So the only beta testing Vista owners are doing is mainly for the
>> crappy drivers from software/hardware manufacturers.
>> Same thing goes on with every newly released os, Windows, Mac, linux
>> all of them.
>> Problem is, Windows owns the desktop market so bad drivers affect more
>> users.
>> Frank
>>
>
> I've actually been curious about this. I realize that some of Vista's
> problems are related to third-party developers, but why is this so? Why is
> it that they've taken so long to get properly functioning drivers out for
> Vista? Vista was in final beta and RC mode for quite a long time, more
> than enough time for hardware developers. It would seem to be in their best
> interest to create functional drivers for Vista for it's release. Are
> drivers that much more difficult to create for Vista? Is MS not providing
> enough information to developers to create proper drivers?
>
>


The question is how much faith did the manufacturers have in MS actually
sticking with the specifications they had to interface with.
 
Frank wrote:
> MICHAEL wrote:
>
>> Frank wrote:
>>
>>> Alias wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>> news:%23v$a1ayyHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>>> news:Oi3JbtuyHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what I
>>>>>>>>>> call Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> False.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Windows 95 had how many version updates? 3?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Windows 98 and then Windows 98SE
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> XP and SP2
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Ill informed drivel snipped.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> WOW only 3 how many versions has UBUNTU had like 100 or so. Well
>>>>>>> maybe they will get it in about 20 or so years.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> LOL! Not the same thing, sorry.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>> Oh I forgot about your double standard.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ubuntu comes out with a new stable build every six months for free.
>>>> MS comes out with buggy betas and foists them on the public for a
>>>> high price. If you read the Ubuntu forums, the questions are about
>>>> how to use or configure Ubuntu not "OE lost all my messages" or "My
>>>> computer keeps rebooting" like with XP and Vista. See the difference
>>>> or are you blind?
>>>>
>>>> I've been using Ubuntu now for over nine months and I've been using
>>>> XP Pro SP2 with all the updates except WGA/N since '02 and I have to
>>>> say that Ubuntu is much more solid and much more of a pleasure to use.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>
>>> You're an admitted liar! Go spread your stupid, insidious lies
>>> somewhere else.
>>> BTW, got that phone number yet?
>>> Lying linux lose.
>>> Frank
>>
>>
>> This is for you, Frank: 1-800-GET-HELP
>>
>>
>>
>> -Michael
>
> So michael, that absolves alias from his lying ways?
> I don't think so!
> Frank

It's for you, Frank. I don't lie. You do. Get help.

Alias
 
ray wrote:

> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:27:13 -0700, Frank wrote:
>
>
>>ray wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:59:06 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:59:31 -0700, Henry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Really!
>>>>>>No freezes, faults, crashes, breakdowns. Everything works
>>>>>>perfectly including my old custom stuff from W95 days. Speed is
>>>>>>about the same as XP. Vista repairs itself, defrags the drive,
>>>>>>protects my work, solves problems on its own. The sidebar has
>>>>>>seriously useful gadgets that make life easier. Files and
>>>>>>folders are now easier to find, in any of several ways.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I came by looking for more joy, gadgets, exploitation stories,
>>>>>>and high fives -- and learned that people happy with Vista don't
>>>>>>waste time here. That leaves the rest...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I'm glad it works for you. Judging by the volume you may be in the
>>>>>minority.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Only if you can't count!
>>>>Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>Come on frankie, don't get your panties in a twist. I said he/she 'may be
>>>in the minority' - if you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested to see it.
>>>
>>
>>Which part upset you...the panties or the minority...?
>>:-)
>>Frank
>
>
>
> I'm not upset, frankie, I simply realize that you seem to have problems
> with comprehension, so I thought I'd try to spell it out for you.
>

And obviously my first reply went right over your head. Suggest you
check your reading comprehension as it appears to not be working.
And for proving you're assumption is incorrect...the burden of proof
lies with you...it's your assumption not mine.
Frank
 
MICHAEL wrote:
> * Frank:
>
>>MICHAEL wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Alias wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Gary wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>>news:%23v$a1ayyHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Gary wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>"Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>news:Oi3JbtuyHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Frank wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Alias wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what I
>>>>>>>>>>>call Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>False.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Windows 95 had how many version updates? 3?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Windows 98 and then Windows 98SE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>XP and SP2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Ill informed drivel snipped.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Alias
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>WOW only 3 how many versions has UBUNTU had like 100 or so. Well
>>>>>>>>maybe they will get it in about 20 or so years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>LOL! Not the same thing, sorry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Alias
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Oh I forgot about your double standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ubuntu comes out with a new stable build every six months for free. MS
>>>>>comes out with buggy betas and foists them on the public for a high
>>>>>price. If you read the Ubuntu forums, the questions are about how to use
>>>>>or configure Ubuntu not "OE lost all my messages" or "My computer keeps
>>>>>rebooting" like with XP and Vista. See the difference or are you blind?
>>>>>
>>>>>I've been using Ubuntu now for over nine months and I've been using XP
>>>>>Pro SP2 with all the updates except WGA/N since '02 and I have to say
>>>>>that Ubuntu is much more solid and much more of a pleasure to use.
>>>>>
>>>>>Alias
>>>>
>>>>You're an admitted liar! Go spread your stupid, insidious lies somewhere
>>>>else.
>>>>BTW, got that phone number yet?
>>>>Lying linux lose.
>>>>Frank
>>>
>>>This is for you, Frank: 1-800-GET-HELP
>>
>>So michael, that absolves alias from his lying ways?
>>I don't think so!
>>Frank
>
>
> Absolution is a personal matter.
>
>
> -Michael

Then let it be.
Frank
 
Alias wrote:

> Frank wrote:
>
>> MICHAEL wrote:
>>
>>> Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:%23v$a1ayyHHA.4652@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:Oi3JbtuyHHA.3696@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Alias wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> All versions of Windows, without exception, ended up in what
>>>>>>>>>>> I call Public Beta before they were ready for prime time.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Nope, totally wrong analogy. Completely off base.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> False.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Windows 95 had how many version updates? 3?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Windows 98 and then Windows 98SE
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> XP and SP2
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Ill informed drivel snipped.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> WOW only 3 how many versions has UBUNTU had like 100 or so. Well
>>>>>>>> maybe they will get it in about 20 or so years.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> LOL! Not the same thing, sorry.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alias
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Oh I forgot about your double standard.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ubuntu comes out with a new stable build every six months for free.
>>>>> MS comes out with buggy betas and foists them on the public for a
>>>>> high price. If you read the Ubuntu forums, the questions are about
>>>>> how to use or configure Ubuntu not "OE lost all my messages" or "My
>>>>> computer keeps rebooting" like with XP and Vista. See the
>>>>> difference or are you blind?
>>>>>
>>>>> I've been using Ubuntu now for over nine months and I've been using
>>>>> XP Pro SP2 with all the updates except WGA/N since '02 and I have
>>>>> to say that Ubuntu is much more solid and much more of a pleasure
>>>>> to use.
>>>>>
>>>>> Alias
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You're an admitted liar! Go spread your stupid, insidious lies
>>>> somewhere else.
>>>> BTW, got that phone number yet?
>>>> Lying linux lose.
>>>> Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is for you, Frank: 1-800-GET-HELP
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -Michael
>>
>>
>> So michael, that absolves alias from his lying ways?
>> I don't think so!
>> Frank
>
>
> It's for you, Frank. I don't lie. You do. Get help.
>
> Alias

Well that's the biggest lie of all!
I would recommend you get help but it obvious you're oblivious to any
reality of that sort.
Keep lying...it's expected from you.
Frank
 
On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:31:28 -0700, Frank wrote:

> ray wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:27:13 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ray wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:59:06 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:59:31 -0700, Henry wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Really!
>>>>>>>No freezes, faults, crashes, breakdowns. Everything works
>>>>>>>perfectly including my old custom stuff from W95 days. Speed is
>>>>>>>about the same as XP. Vista repairs itself, defrags the drive,
>>>>>>>protects my work, solves problems on its own. The sidebar has
>>>>>>>seriously useful gadgets that make life easier. Files and
>>>>>>>folders are now easier to find, in any of several ways.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I came by looking for more joy, gadgets, exploitation stories,
>>>>>>>and high fives -- and learned that people happy with Vista don't
>>>>>>>waste time here. That leaves the rest...
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I'm glad it works for you. Judging by the volume you may be in the
>>>>>>minority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Only if you can't count!
>>>>>Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Come on frankie, don't get your panties in a twist. I said he/she 'may be
>>>>in the minority' - if you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested to see it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Which part upset you...the panties or the minority...?
>>>:-)
>>>Frank
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm not upset, frankie, I simply realize that you seem to have problems
>> with comprehension, so I thought I'd try to spell it out for you.
>>
>
> And obviously my first reply went right over your head. Suggest you
> check your reading comprehension as it appears to not be working.
> And for proving you're assumption is incorrect...the burden of proof
> lies with you...it's your assumption not mine.
> Frank

Wrong again, frankie baby. I made no assumption at all. Once more: 'he/she
may be in the minority' - please note, I did not say: you are in the
minority.
 
ray wrote:

> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:31:28 -0700, Frank wrote:
>
>
>>ray wrote:
>>
>>
>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:27:13 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:59:06 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:59:31 -0700, Henry wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Really!
>>>>>>>>No freezes, faults, crashes, breakdowns. Everything works
>>>>>>>>perfectly including my old custom stuff from W95 days. Speed is
>>>>>>>>about the same as XP. Vista repairs itself, defrags the drive,
>>>>>>>>protects my work, solves problems on its own. The sidebar has
>>>>>>>>seriously useful gadgets that make life easier. Files and
>>>>>>>>folders are now easier to find, in any of several ways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I came by looking for more joy, gadgets, exploitation stories,
>>>>>>>>and high fives -- and learned that people happy with Vista don't
>>>>>>>>waste time here. That leaves the rest...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I'm glad it works for you. Judging by the volume you may be in the
>>>>>>>minority.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Only if you can't count!
>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Come on frankie, don't get your panties in a twist. I said he/she 'may be
>>>>>in the minority' - if you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested to see it.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Which part upset you...the panties or the minority...?
>>>>:-)
>>>>Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>I'm not upset, frankie, I simply realize that you seem to have problems
>>>with comprehension, so I thought I'd try to spell it out for you.
>>>
>>
>>And obviously my first reply went right over your head. Suggest you
>>check your reading comprehension as it appears to not be working.
>>And for proving you're assumption is incorrect...the burden of proof
>>lies with you...it's your assumption not mine.
>>Frank
>
>
> Wrong again, frankie baby. I made no assumption at all. Once more: 'he/she
> may be in the minority' - please note, I did not say: you are in the
> minority.
>

Once again...I never said you said that!
Gawd...give it a rest ok?
Go peddle your linux crap somewhere else ok?
Frank
 
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"Frank" <fb@nospamer.cmn> wrote in message
news:#u9ioK9yHHA.1132@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> ray wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 21 Jul 2007 11:31:28 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ray wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 20:27:13 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 09:59:06 -0700, Frank wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ray wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>On Thu, 19 Jul 2007 21:59:31 -0700, Henry wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Really!
>>>>>>>>>No freezes, faults, crashes, breakdowns. Everything works perfectly
>>>>>>>>>including my old custom stuff from W95 days. Speed is about the
>>>>>>>>>same as XP. Vista repairs itself, defrags the drive, protects my
>>>>>>>>>work, solves problems on its own. The sidebar has seriously useful
>>>>>>>>>gadgets that make life easier. Files and folders are now easier to
>>>>>>>>>find, in any of several ways.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I came by looking for more joy, gadgets, exploitation stories, and
>>>>>>>>>high fives -- and learned that people happy with Vista don't waste
>>>>>>>>>time here. That leaves the rest...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I'm glad it works for you. Judging by the volume you may be in the
>>>>>>>>minority.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Only if you can't count!
>>>>>>>Frank
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Come on frankie, don't get your panties in a twist. I said he/she 'may
>>>>>>be
>>>>>>in the minority' - if you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested to
>>>>>>see it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Which part upset you...the panties or the minority...?
>>>>>:-)
>>>>>Frank
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I'm not upset, frankie, I simply realize that you seem to have problems
>>>>with comprehension, so I thought I'd try to spell it out for you.
>>>>
>>>
>>>And obviously my first reply went right over your head. Suggest you check
>>>your reading comprehension as it appears to not be working.
>>>And for proving you're assumption is incorrect...the burden of proof lies
>>>with you...it's your assumption not mine.
>>>Frank
>>
>>
>> Wrong again, frankie baby. I made no assumption at all. Once more:
>> 'he/she
>> may be in the minority' - please note, I did not say: you are in the
>> minority.
>>
>
> Once again...I never said you said that!
> Gawd...give it a rest ok?
> Go peddle your linux crap somewhere else ok?
> Frank
 
"carl feredeck" laid this egg...
> You guys do not understand that being pro-crap, does not make you positive
> people.
>
> You may like crap but in effect you are the negative ones and you are the
> trolls.
> Personal experience counts very little in this case
>
> The masses dislike vista and its everywhere on the internet. If you cannot
> see it,
> you are surfing the world wide web with blindfolds!
>

It isn't crap, doofus, but PEBKAC. Just because you don't like it, or can't
get it to work, doesn't give the right to come into the MS/Vista groups and
squat everywhere.
 
"carl feredeck" thumped...
> What happened to innocent until proven guilty?
>
> Now its guilty and you have to prove you are innocent many times a year!
>
> Vista is very aggressive and it calls home way too much...

How many times a year? I've been activated since day one, many months ago,
but haven't re-upgraded anything. I don't reinstall the OS more than twice
for the life of the hard drive, either. Since 3.11, you always upgrade all
the hardware and get the latest drivers for all of it, on disc, _before_ you
clean install a new OS. I'm guessing you haven't been around that long.
 
"Frank" pointed out...
> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their copy
> of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.
> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of
> activation and easiest to deter.
>


Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has always
been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy permission to use
it on one computer. How many offices installed the same copy of '95 or '98
on over twenty systems? How many times has someone with a CD-R bootlegged a
dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends? It may sound penny-ante but
it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain that to any of you children out
there too young to get it.
 
here@home.again wrote:
> "Frank" pointed out...
>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their copy
>> of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.
>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of
>> activation and easiest to deter.
>>
>
>
> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has always
> been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy permission to use
> it on one computer. How many offices installed the same copy of '95 or '98
> on over twenty systems? How many times has someone with a CD-R bootlegged a
> dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends? It may sound penny-ante but
> it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain that to any of you children out
> there too young to get it.
>
>

With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business
years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --
maybe not the people you know -- are honest.

Alias
 
"Alias" blurted out...
> here@home.again wrote:
>> "Frank" pointed out...
>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their
>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.
>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of
>>> activation and easiest to deter.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has
>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy
>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same
>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone
>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?
>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain
>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.
>
> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business
> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --
> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.
>
> Alias


Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they
made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? ;-)
 
here@home.again wrote:
> "Alias" blurted out...
>> here@home.again wrote:
>>> "Frank" pointed out...
>>>> Legitimate users will become "casual pirates" when they "loan" their
>>>> copy of Windows OS to a family member, friend or acquaintance.
>>>> This obviously happens rather frequently and is the main target of
>>>> activation and easiest to deter.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Too true! They just never bother to read the EULA, ever. Windows has
>>> always been licensed, not sold, since early DOS, and we only buy
>>> permission to use it on one computer. How many offices installed the same
>>> copy of '95 or '98 on over twenty systems? How many times has someone
>>> with a CD-R bootlegged a dozen 'free' copies for their closest friends?
>>> It may sound penny-ante but it's really nickle 'n diming. I'll explain
>>> that to any of you children out there too young to get it.
>> With your logic, Microsoft, Adobe, etc. would have gone out of business
>> years ago. Reality check: they made billions because most people --
>> maybe not the people you know -- are honest.
>>
>> Alias
>
>
> Who said anything about going out of business? For those "billions" they
> made, they lost, what, 2 or 3 hundred thousand? ;-)
>
>

Compare that to the ongoing activation costs like the seats in India,
all the activation servers. The WPA and WGA programmers, etc. and you're
better off assuming your customers are honest.

Alias
 
Alias wrote:

>>
>
> Compare that to the ongoing activation costs like the seats in India,
> all the activation servers. The WPA and WGA programmers, etc. and you're
> better off assuming your customers are honest.
>
> Alias

Brilliant!
Now you're making business decisions for one of the most successful
corporations in the world.
Absolutely brilliant!
Frank
 
GO wrote:

> I'm curious, do you actually doubt the logic here? The loss due to casual
> piracy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they are making;
I'm assuming you'll agree to that

Who cares what I say or agree to as obviously the bean counters and
management at MS don't think so.


.. Out of that same group of "pirates" there
> will be a group of those that will not buy the software regardless. This is
> money that MS will never see regardless of what schemes they develop.

No company has 100% market share.

As
> far as I can see that leaves you with one type of pirate that MS is trying
> to regain costs from:

regain cost...? No, its to stop the bleeding in the form of two types of
piracy, casual, which is now proly under control and commercial, where
"cracked" versions, volume keys, etc., are available.

those that are ignorant (ie they do not realize what
> they are doing is wrong). So rather than having a system that is
> continually accusing that their honest customers are crooks,

Most people don't agree with that thinking at all. I certainly don't
consider myself a thief just because I have to activate my software.
That thought would never even enter my mind!
Better get used to it though cause most software from all major
companies is headed that way. MS is not the only software company to
require activation...far from it!

and all the
> initial/ongoing costs of WPA/WGA why not implement something simpler.

The recording industry and the movie industry are just two more examples
of industries headed towards some type of piracy protection. There is
simply too much money involved not to.

Like
> a one-time activation upon installation or simply just educating the user.

Activation one one machine produces a "hash"...when something on that
machine is changed so will the "hash" and it thinks the machine is
different...which...technically speaking it is...therefore sometimes
re-activation is required..which is nothing more than a few min phone call.
It is, what it is.
Frank
>
>
 
Frank wrote:
> Alias wrote:
>
>>>
>>
>> Compare that to the ongoing activation costs like the seats in India,
>> all the activation servers. The WPA and WGA programmers, etc. and
>> you're better off assuming your customers are honest.
>>
>> Alias
>
> Brilliant!
> Now you're making business decisions for one of the most successful
> corporations in the world.
> Absolutely brilliant!
> Frank

I'm curious, do you actually doubt the logic here? The loss due to casual
piracy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they are making; I'm
assuming you'll agree to that. Out of that same group of "pirates" there
will be a group of those that will not buy the software regardless. This is
money that MS will never see regardless of what schemes they develop. As
far as I can see that leaves you with one type of pirate that MS is trying
to regain costs from: those that are ignorant (ie they do not realize what
they are doing is wrong). So rather than having a system that is
continually accusing that their honest customers are crooks, and all the
initial/ongoing costs of WPA/WGA why not implement something simpler. Like
a one-time activation upon installation or simply just educating the user.
 
On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 18:43:34 -0500, "GO"
<aa533@remove.this.chebucto.ns.ca> wrote:

>Frank wrote:
>> Alias wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Compare that to the ongoing activation costs like the seats in India,
>>> all the activation servers. The WPA and WGA programmers, etc. and
>>> you're better off assuming your customers are honest.
>>>
>>> Alias
>>
>> Brilliant!
>> Now you're making business decisions for one of the most successful
>> corporations in the world.
>> Absolutely brilliant!
>> Frank
>
>I'm curious, do you actually doubt the logic here? The loss due to casual
>piracy is a drop in the bucket compared to the money they are making; I'm
>assuming you'll agree to that. Out of that same group of "pirates" there
>will be a group of those that will not buy the software regardless. This is
>money that MS will never see regardless of what schemes they develop. As
>far as I can see that leaves you with one type of pirate that MS is trying
>to regain costs from: those that are ignorant (ie they do not realize what
>they are doing is wrong). So rather than having a system that is
>continually accusing that their honest customers are crooks, and all the
>initial/ongoing costs of WPA/WGA why not implement something simpler. Like
>a one-time activation upon installation or simply just educating the user.

You'll have better luck trying to reason with some doorknob than
Frankie.

I've seen several studies covering two areas were "pirating" is
common, software and music. The studies conclude that the piracy has a
slight impact all right... it INCREASES sales in the long run. Not
surprising Bill Gates is on record approving of the Chinese masses
stealing Windows, arguing that if they're going to steal any OS they
should steal Windows reasoning some day hopefully they will be able to
afford to buy a copy.
 
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