Repairier's duty of care re data.

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anteaus
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Anteaus

Guest
One for the the repair-shop guys...



I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he

will discuss any options.



The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less

likely, the mobo.



Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've

pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before

I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

quote at this stage.



With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.



He refuses to answer the question.



Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

computer needs to be wiped?



If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if

they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to

liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains

of) it, or not?
 
Under the circumstances, and his refusal to cooperate fully, I would simply

tell him you'd prefer if he took his business elsewhere.



"Anteaus" wrote in message

news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...

: One for the the repair-shop guys...

:

: I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

: who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before

he

: will discuss any options.

:

: The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

: could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but

less

: likely, the mobo.

:

: Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)

I've

: pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test

before

: I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

: quote at this stage.

:

: With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

:

: He refuses to answer the question.

:

: Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

: issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

: computer needs to be wiped?

:

: If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,

if

: they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard

to

: liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what

remains

: of) it, or not?

:

:
 
"Anteaus" wrote in message

news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...

> One for the the repair-shop guys...

>

> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before

> he

> will discuss any options.

>

> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but

> less

> likely, the mobo.

>

> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)

> I've

> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test

> before

> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

> quote at this stage.

>

> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

>

> He refuses to answer the question.

>

> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

> computer needs to be wiped?

>

> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,

> if

> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard

> to

> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what

> remains

> of) it, or not?

>



Include words such as "By accepting this quotation, the customer agrees that

XYZ Enterprises may, at its discretion, format the all partitions on all

hard disks installed in the client's computer and that the customer is

solely responsible for backing up his data and his software before leaving

his computer in the repairer's care".



The point is: Even if the client is cooperative you can get yourself into a

terrible situation. Assume that you create an image of a client's disk.

After swapping disks, you restore the data from the image, only to be

accused that you lost a few dozen irreplaceable files. Your claim that you

created a fair image wouldn't get you anywhere: The client could easily

claim that you must have deleted some files prior to creating the image. The

name of the game is: Take all care but accept no responsibility.
 
In article ,

Anteaus@discussions.microsoft.com says...

> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

> computer needs to be wiped?

>



Once in a while we do residential computers for our corporate clients,

it works like this:



We agree to backup all data, that we find, in reasonable effort, and do

no guarantee that all user data will be restorable or that it will all

be backed-up. We also detail how any corruption or malware can render

data unusable and could also corrupt the backup process, rendering all

data on the backup unreadable or useless.



We have a standard document that details the issues, liability, work

type, etc... Once they sign it all sides are covered properly.



The customer pays for all time, backup, repair, reinstall, etc...



--

You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

Trust yourself.

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
Anteaus wrote:

> One for the the repair-shop guys...

>

> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he

> will discuss any options.

>

> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less

> likely, the mobo.

>

> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've

> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before

> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

> quote at this stage.

>

> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

>

> He refuses to answer the question.

>

> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

> computer needs to be wiped?

>

> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if

> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to

> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains

> of) it, or not?

>



You don't *have* to do writes to the drive, to test it. Seatools for DOS

is a read-only test, for example. You can fail a hard drive, just

based on SMART statistics, number of "pending" sectors outstanding and

so on. A drive doesn't need to be completely failed, to be considered a

candidate for replacement. A few lead indicators, can tell you whether

the thing stinks or not.



You can test his motherboard, drive cable, and power supply, using your

own drive, and without endangering his drive.



If you want some insulation from a difficult customer, offer to copy the

data to a brand new disk drive, before attempting any repairs to the data.

They'll end up, with their original drive, in its original condition. If

they need their data, they can always send that drive to a data recovery

company etc. By you working on a copy, there is never any question

as to whether you've been "monkeying" with their data. You've only

worked on the copy of the data, and not the original drive. You then

have some isolation between you and the customer. You can tell them

the old drive can be used for backups, if it is in relatively good shape.



The first step in copying his data, is to do a surface scan of the disk.

Something like HDTune can scan the disk, and tell you whether any sectors

are reporting CRC errors. Based on the results, you can use a different

method for copying the data, if errored sectors are present. Doing

a sector by sector copy, with "dd" or the like, is a gentle way of copying

data from one drive to another, without a lot of random head movement.



http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk



By throwing a brand new drive into the repair bill, that should raise the

price enough, he'll go away :-) With the new drive as an intermediate step,

maybe you can establish a more precise repair estimate. There is still

the possibility of a bad motherboard, drive cable, power supply, so it

isn't possible to set the price "in stone".



There are plenty of horror stories about mom&pop computer stores erasing

customer data ("level and reload"), so it would not be out of the ordinary

for the "geek squad" to ruin customer data.



It is a lot like the automotive industry. I took my car in for an oil

change, about a month ago. The agreement was to do an oil change. Later,

when I go to check on the status of the oil change (a "while u wait"),

the counter help says "we'll having trouble doing a load test on your

alternator". So "monkeying" with stuff, is a normal activity for the

service industry :-)



Paul
 
it should be your responsibility

to make a back up of the data

for your protection.



the backup should be no charge

because you will need to revert

the system back to it's original

state if your analysis proves faulty

or the customer is dissatisfied with

your work.



the backup will also serve as a

method to restore the customers

personal files if you decide to

wipe the disk and install a new

o.s.



if the customer wants the back

up disks you created, then sell

them back to him but make a

copy for your protection.



--



db·´¯`·...¸>

DatabaseBen, Retired Professional

- Systems Analyst

- Database Developer

- Accountancy

- Veteran of the Armed Forces

- Microsoft Partner

- @hotmail.com

~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen



>

>



"Anteaus" wrote in message news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...

> One for the the repair-shop guys...

>

> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he

> will discuss any options.

>

> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less

> likely, the mobo.

>

> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've

> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before

> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

> quote at this stage.

>

> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

>

> He refuses to answer the question.

>

> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

> computer needs to be wiped?

>

> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if

> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to

> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains

> of) it, or not?

>

>
 
incidentally, if you choose

to wipe the disk and install

your copy of the o.s.



then be sure that you have

the customers product key

before you do.



you will need to replace your

product key with the customer's

before releasing the system

back.



if the customer does not have

a product key,



then I wouldn't install an o.s.

until the customer obtains

a license.



--



db·´¯`·...¸>

DatabaseBen, Retired Professional

- Systems Analyst

- Database Developer

- Accountancy

- Veteran of the Armed Forces

- Microsoft Partner

- @hotmail.com

~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen



>

>



"db" wrote in message news:ACEEB395-EF9B-4674-BEEE-A0A14B4844A1@microsoft.com...

> it should be your responsibility

> to make a back up of the data

> for your protection.

>

> the backup should be no charge

> because you will need to revert

> the system back to it's original

> state if your analysis proves faulty

> or the customer is dissatisfied with

> your work.

>

> the backup will also serve as a

> method to restore the customers

> personal files if you decide to

> wipe the disk and install a new

> o.s.

>

> if the customer wants the back

> up disks you created, then sell

> them back to him but make a

> copy for your protection.

>

> --

>

> db·´¯`·...¸>

> DatabaseBen, Retired Professional

> - Systems Analyst

> - Database Developer

> - Accountancy

> - Veteran of the Armed Forces

> - Microsoft Partner

> - @hotmail.com

> ~~~~~~~~~~"share the nirvana" - dbZen

>

>>

>>

>

> "Anteaus" wrote in message news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...

>> One for the the repair-shop guys...

>>

>> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

>> who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before he

>> will discuss any options.

>>

>> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

>> could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but less

>> likely, the mobo.

>>

>> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk) I've

>> pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test before

>> I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

>> quote at this stage.

>>

>> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

>>

>> He refuses to answer the question.

>>

>> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

>> issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

>> computer needs to be wiped?

>>

>> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But, if

>> they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard to

>> liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains

>> of) it, or not?

>>

>>
 
In article , "db"

says...

>

> it should be your responsibility

> to make a back up of the data

> for your protection.



You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do

it.



> the backup should be no charge

> because you will need to revert

> the system back to it's original

> state if your analysis proves faulty

> or the customer is dissatisfied with

> your work.



A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different

amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have

never run a business and don't understand business at all.



> the backup will also serve as a

> method to restore the customers

> personal files if you decide to

> wipe the disk and install a new

> o.s.



I think everyone already knows the above.



> if the customer wants the back

> up disks you created, then sell

> them back to him but make a

> copy for your protection.



Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the

customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of

the media, as any business would properly do.



In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the

drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer

since it's used and is company/tech property.



It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay

for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes

backup and recovery of the customers data.



--

You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

Trust yourself.

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
I concur, no sense in dealing with people who want it all their way first.

the old adage the customer is always correct is a good one, however we have

the choice of whom we choose to allow to be our customer. I'd dump this one.



"Tom Willett" wrote:



> Under the circumstances, and his refusal to cooperate fully, I would simply

> tell him you'd prefer if he took his business elsewhere.

>

> "Anteaus" wrote in message

> news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com...

> : One for the the repair-shop guys...

> :

> : I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an awkward customer

> : who insists that I give him a written quote to repair his computer before

> he

> : will discuss any options.

> :

> : The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as it stands this

> : could be software-related, or it could be a failing disk. Or maybe, but

> less

> : likely, the mobo.

> :

> : Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like pirated junk)

> I've

> : pointed-out that I need to format the disk for a full read/write test

> before

> : I can determine if the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

> : quote at this stage.

> :

> : With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his data.

> :

> : He refuses to answer the question.

> :

> : Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it highlights an

> : issue faced by all repairers - What should be done when the data on a

> : computer needs to be wiped?

> :

> : If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that is clear. But,

> if

> : they won't give a definite answer, what is the legal position with regard

> to

> : liability for the data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what

> remains

> : of) it, or not?

> :

> :

>

>

> .

>
 
sgopus wrote:

>



> the old adage the customer is always correct



This adage does not apply in France where Customer is always wrong

and should be taught a lesson!



hth
 
Thx for replies.



Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a running jump. If I

entertain him he will likely be back again, and maybe I don't want that.



Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an OS reload

anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they don't make CDs for that.



"Leythos" wrote:



> In article , "db"

> says...

> >

> > it should be your responsibility

> > to make a back up of the data

> > for your protection.

>

> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do

> it.

>

> > the backup should be no charge

> > because you will need to revert

> > the system back to it's original

> > state if your analysis proves faulty

> > or the customer is dissatisfied with

> > your work.

>

> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different

> amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have

> never run a business and don't understand business at all.

>

> > the backup will also serve as a

> > method to restore the customers

> > personal files if you decide to

> > wipe the disk and install a new

> > o.s.

>

> I think everyone already knows the above.

>

> > if the customer wants the back

> > up disks you created, then sell

> > them back to him but make a

> > copy for your protection.

>

> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the

> customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of

> the media, as any business would properly do.

>

> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the

> drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer

> since it's used and is company/tech property.

>

> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay

> for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes

> backup and recovery of the customers data.

>

> --

> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

> voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

> Trust yourself.

> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

> .

>
 
"Leythos" wrote in message

news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com...

> In article , "db"

> says...

>>

>> it should be your responsibility

>> to make a back up of the data

>> for your protection.

>

> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility, even if you do

> it.



Whether or not db is nuts or not is beside the point :-) If you send a PC or

notebook back to the manufacturer for repair, the first thing they tell you

is to make a backup of your drive, if possible, since they can't guarantee

against loss of data. If fact, on at least 80% of the ones I've sent back

for warranty repairs, the first thing that was done was a format and

recovery to day one. That's with Dell, Compaq, HP, and Gateway. Local shops

are even higher. So yep, I'd say the backup is the customers responsibility

if he ever wants to see that data again. I always found it amazing the

number of users who DON'T have any disaster recovery plan in place.

--

SC Tom



"Owning a handgun doesn't make you armed

any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician."

Lt. Col. J.D. "Jeff" Cooper, USMC, Ret.



>

>> the backup should be no charge

>> because you will need to revert

>> the system back to it's original

>> state if your analysis proves faulty

>> or the customer is dissatisfied with

>> your work.

>

> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take different

> amounts of time and storage space. To eat that cost shows that you have

> never run a business and don't understand business at all.

>

>> the backup will also serve as a

>> method to restore the customers

>> personal files if you decide to

>> wipe the disk and install a new

>> o.s.

>

> I think everyone already knows the above.

>

>> if the customer wants the back

>> up disks you created, then sell

>> them back to him but make a

>> copy for your protection.

>

> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost to the

> customer, and you wipe your media or charge the customer for the cost of

> the media, as any business would properly do.

>

> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do backups with, the

> drive belongs to the tech/company and will not be given to the customer

> since it's used and is company/tech property.

>

> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not have to pay

> for any part of the cleaning and restore process, and that includes

> backup and recovery of the customers data.

>

> --

> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

> voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

> Trust yourself.

> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
On 4/1/2010 11:35 PM, Anteaus wrote:

> Thx for replies.

>

> Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a running jump. If I

> entertain him he will likely be back again, and maybe I don't want that.

>

> Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an OS reload

> anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they don't make CDs for that.

>



I think you've nailed the situation on both counts. However, I'd just

say "No, I cannot work on your computer under these circumstances."

Leave the running jump out of it.



Bill
 
In news:4BB541AA.79F9EE5C@discussions.microsoft.com,

LD55ZRA typed:

> sgopus wrote:

>>

>

>> the old adage the customer is always correct

>

> This adage does not apply in France where Customer is

> always wrong and should be taught a lesson!

>

> hth



Nothing you post ever applies, LD55ZRA. Go morph yourself

again; we don't need you.
 
1. You should maintain your own drives for when you need to do

data-destructive testing.

2. You should return a system to the customer as it arrived,

unless other plans have been agreed upon in writing. Too many

shops send them back with a different OS and their old COA

numbers don't work.

3. You should have a standard contract to sign detailing what

might of might not happen.

4. Anyone that can't live with your standards and requirements

can always go elsewhere for their service. Your reputation and

results should be able to get customers to come to you.



The guy you've described? Tell him you'd prefer he go

elsewhere and suggest a phone or address. You can refuse

service to anyone for any reason anytime; you're not obligated

to take on a bad customer.

If/when I turn someone down (I haven't yet) I have a

written boilerplate I can give them detailing that I am

allowed to do so and without giving my reasons.

If someone should argue a point of my contract (and that's

happened), he has two options; accept it and sign it, or go

elsewhere. There is nothing in the law that requires me to

take on his business; even if he's a return customer, in the

extreme.

Consistancy is very important; just make sure you treat

everyone the same. And don't be an A-hole; sometimes a

recapitulation for a customer can do your business a lot of

good. Just don't be a sucker.



HTH,



Twayne`

In news:0BA2D9F2-871F-4EE3-B07A-F95D292F398A@microsoft.com,

Anteaus typed:

> One for the the repair-shop guys...

>

> I don't as a rule do home PCs, but right now I've got an

> awkward customer who insists that I give him a written

> quote to repair his computer before he will discuss any

> options.

>

> The computer has some quite severe disk corruption, and as

> it stands this could be software-related, or it could be a

> failing disk. Or maybe, but less likely, the mobo.

>

> Since it has over 50GB of data on it (mostly looking like

> pirated junk) I've pointed-out that I need to format the

> disk for a full read/write test before I can determine if

> the disk needs replacing. Thus I cannot offer any fixed

> quote at this stage.

>

> With this in mind, I asked him if he has a backup of his

> data.

>

> He refuses to answer the question.

>

> Ok, this is an exceptional case of obstructiveness, but it

> highlights an issue faced by all repairers - What should be

> done when the data on a computer needs to be wiped?

>

> If the owner gives a concise yes or no then at least that

> is clear. But, if they won't give a definite answer, what

> is the legal position with regard to liability for the

> data? Do we have a duty of care to preserve (what remains

> of) it, or not?
 
In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,

Leythos typed:

> In article

> , "db"

> says...

>>

>> it should be your responsibility

>> to make a back up of the data

>> for your protection.

>

> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,

> even if you do it.



Nah, that's unneccessary expense for a task that's practically

automatic and takes little to no expertise. Any charge should

be minimal, and waivable if the customer has their own

backups. It's not right to charge the ignorant for their

ignorance.



>

>> the backup should be no charge

>> because you will need to revert

>> the system back to it's original

>> state if your analysis proves faulty

>> or the customer is dissatisfied with

>> your work.

>

> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take

> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that

> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't

> understand business at all.

>

>> the backup will also serve as a

>> method to restore the customers

>> personal files if you decide to

>> wipe the disk and install a new

>> o.s.

>

> I think everyone already knows the above.

>

>> if the customer wants the back

>> up disks you created, then sell

>> them back to him but make a

>> copy for your protection.

>

> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost

> to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge the

> customer for the cost of the media, as any business would

> properly do.

>

> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do

> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and

> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is

> company/tech property.

>

> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not

> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore

> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the

> customers data.
 
In article , nobody@spamcop.net

says...

>

> In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,

> Leythos typed:

> > In article

> > , "db"

> > says...

> >>

> >> it should be your responsibility

> >> to make a back up of the data

> >> for your protection.

> >

> > You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,

> > even if you do it.

>

> Nah, that's unneccessary expense for a task that's practically

> automatic and takes little to no expertise. Any charge should

> be minimal, and waivable if the customer has their own

> backups. It's not right to charge the ignorant for their

> ignorance.



You're mistaken - if the customer ALREADY, so as to not delay you (since

your a contractor), then you don't need to make a backup, as long as the

customer agrees that anything since his/her last backup will not be

retained.



No consultant would give their time away free on a normal basis when

working for customers, in general. If a backup takes 1 hour because you

have to search for files, iTunes, other music, Kodak files, etc... then

that's real time you should charge for.



Remember, the reason you're there is because THEY CALLED YOU FOR YOUR

SKILLS TO AID THEM - they should pay for your time, all of it.







--

You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

Trust yourself.

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
In news:MPG.261ed6f32f2c7ad98a24d@us.news.astraweb.com,

Leythos typed:

> In article

> , "db"

> says...

>>

>> it should be your responsibility

>> to make a back up of the data

>> for your protection.

>

> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,

> even if you do it.

>

>> the backup should be no charge

>> because you will need to revert

>> the system back to it's original

>> state if your analysis proves faulty

>> or the customer is dissatisfied with

>> your work.



True. And also to give the machine back running the same OS

and COA number as when it came in.



>

> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take

> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that

> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't

> understand business at all.



BS - Only the physical drive with data needs backing up of the

OS.

It takes a minute or so to connect a cable, maybe install

backup support 10 miutes, then a click and forget it. You

don't sit staring at a machine while it backs up; doing so is

double-booking because 99% of people will go do something else

while the backup runs.

Backups aren't time eaters; it's that simple. Being able to

do something else while the backup runs is common sense and if

you aren't doing so, you shouldn't be in business anyway. And

it seldom if ever takes "hours" to do a backup.

Backing up should be free or a very minimal price.

Definitely less than $10; a lot less.

>

>> the backup will also serve as a

>> method to restore the customers

>> personal files if you decide to

>> wipe the disk and install a new

>> o.s.

>> if the customer wants the back

>> up disks you created, then sell

>> them back to him but make a

>> copy for your protection.



Keeping a customer's bootable drive backup is against the

rules and borders on piracy. It's also how you get people's

COA numbers screwed up.



>

> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time cost

> to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge the

> customer for the cost of the media, as any business would

> properly do.



Backing up data is for the BUSINESS protection, NOT the

customer! It's like any diag-ware you have - it's your own

overhead, not something you specifically charge a customer

for. No one around here charges for doing the backups.

Personally, I back up a machine as soon as I know it's

functional enough to do so. I've also been known to call and

alert the customer to things that may come up as unexpected.

>

> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do

> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and

> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is

> company/tech property.



And thus is a CODB, overhead, whatever you wish to call it.

Using it is no more chargeable than setting up and plugging in

the computer.



>

> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not

> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore

> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the

> customers data.



Wow! You even charge for spending a few minutes cleaning out

dust and putting the customer's OS back the way it should be?

Somethings' pretty strange about your methodologies. Or you

know absolutely nothing about how to handle a business.



Twayne
 
In news:236722B1-FCC6-4335-8DA5-C8BE576A4118@microsoft.com,

Anteaus typed:

> Thx for replies.

>

> Think my best option here is to tell the guy to take a

> running jump. If I entertain him he will likely be back

> again, and maybe I don't want that.



That might result in two things:

1. Getting his respect when he tries some other repair shops,

and compares them to what you offered, and

2. Maybe even some word of mouth business for you; you never

know. I just figure, don't burn bridges, but be firm in your

convictions.



>

> Reckon it's the memory between the guy's ears that needs an

> OS reload anyway, not the computer.. Unfortunately they

> don't make CDs for that.



I'd have to agree with you except the running jump. Politeness

and being strictly factual goes a long ways and how knows; he

might appreciate that someday. Respect goes a long ways, even

with annoying customers or overly exuberant ones too.



HTH,



Twayne`







> "Leythos" wrote:

>

>> In article

>> , "db"

>> says...

>>>

>>> it should be your responsibility

>>> to make a back up of the data

>>> for your protection.

>>

>> You're nuts - the backup is the customers responsibility,

>> even if you do it.

>>

>>> the backup should be no charge

>>> because you will need to revert

>>> the system back to it's original

>>> state if your analysis proves faulty

>>> or the customer is dissatisfied with

>>> your work.

>>

>> A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take

>> different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that

>> cost shows that you have never run a business and don't

>> understand business at all.

>>

>>> the backup will also serve as a

>>> method to restore the customers

>>> personal files if you decide to

>>> wipe the disk and install a new

>>> o.s.

>>

>> I think everyone already knows the above.

>>

>>> if the customer wants the back

>>> up disks you created, then sell

>>> them back to him but make a

>>> copy for your protection.

>>

>> Wrong, if you make a backup you RESTORE the data, time

>> cost to the customer, and you wipe your media or charge

>> the customer for the cost of the media, as any business

>> would properly do.

>>

>> In most cases a tech will bring a portable drive to do

>> backups with, the drive belongs to the tech/company and

>> will not be given to the customer since it's used and is

>> company/tech property.

>>

>> It's completely insane to think that a customer should not

>> have to pay for any part of the cleaning and restore

>> process, and that includes backup and recovery of the

>> customers data.

>>

>> --

>> You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only

>> the little voice inside you that most civilians don't even

>> hear -- Listen to that. Trust yourself.

>> spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email

>> address) .
 
In article , nobody@spamcop.net

says...

> > A backup of data can take hours and each customer can take

> > different amounts of time and storage space. To eat that

> > cost shows that you have never run a business and don't

> > understand business at all.

>

> BS - Only the physical drive with data needs backing up of the

> OS.

> It takes a minute or so to connect a cable, maybe install

> backup support 10 miutes, then a click and forget it. You

> don't sit staring at a machine while it backs up; doing so is

> double-booking because 99% of people will go do something else

> while the backup runs.

> Backups aren't time eaters; it's that simple. Being able to

> do something else while the backup runs is common sense and if

> you aren't doing so, you shouldn't be in business anyway. And

> it seldom if ever takes "hours" to do a backup.

> Backing up should be free or a very minimal price.

> Definitely less than $10; a lot less.

>



You must be missing a lot in the world.



In every case I've come across, there was more being used than the My

Something folders for customers systems.



As for connecting a cable and letting it rip - sure, you connect a USB

drive, say a spare 100GB USB drive, and copy the basic files, then you

go hunting for the ones that are not in the users profile that they can

see, and you copy them.



While they copy there is little else you can be doing, since you can't

start the repair until you've done the backup.



So, if the tech is onsite at a customers location, the only call at that

location, do you really think they are going to leave for an hour and

come back? That's complete nonsense.



The tech is going to stay onsite and wait for the backup, it would be a

loss to leave the site and have to sit in the parking lot listening to

the radio....



I've seen customers with 200+ GB of pictures and video that take hours

to complete a backup to a USB external drive - try it yourself sometime,

and that's if the malware hasn't borked the ability to copy the files...



--

You can't trust your best friends, your five senses, only the little

voice inside you that most civilians don't even hear -- Listen to that.

Trust yourself.

spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)
 
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