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> What % of new Linux users have never owned a computer?
> What % of new Windows users have never owned a computer?
>
> What is the average computer experience of a new Windows user?
> What is the average computer experience of a new Linux user?
I can't help - so I apologize to all first
Jupiter Jones presented some logical and reasonable questions for Linux
community to think about though you may not wish to answer here but Linux
advocates cannot afford to ignore those questions, if Linux really wants to
be a valid "mainstream" alternative.
I meant to write a longer post but decided to make a long story short:
(1) If Linux is going to be a mainstream alternative, the community has to
address those issues such as usability (not with your standards),
application and driver availabilities, just to name a few. Note: Customers
and users won't care about the reasons for not having enough, and all they
care is what are given.
(2) Price is one factor but not the only one. People pay for car insurance
knowing (and hoping) they don't use it for most of the time, but still,
they're willing to pay for it. It's the same logic for many are willing to
buy products and sometime with support even they don't really use it. Sense
of security is one of those factors. We all know search engines and
communities are our friends, but I for one won't count on search engines and
communities as our supports. The point is - price is not the only factor
and refer to (1) for some other considerations.
Let me try for the last time by using two examples to demonstrate
"technology" may not be relevant in some buying decisions, and one is in IT
industry and the other one is in automobile industry:
(1) ERP: SAP is the market leader of enterprise resources planning software
(ERP is the common term) and when it and its partners engage a prospect
(usually enterprise-level customers), they always start with senior business
executives. Anyone has any experience on ERP would know the complexity of
the software, and yet, if senior executives cannot comprehend the use of it
in NON-TECHNICAL terms, none is going to spend multimillions US dollars on
the software. Technologies and software specs won't even be discussed if
the first evaluation won't pass.
Moral of the example: We can spend all the time we have till the end of the
world on discussing and debating technologies but it won't matter much for
the non-tech users and customers who represent the majority of the market.
In particular, Linux community hasn't really spent too much effort in this
area, if any. Until Linux community is willing to face and accept the fact,
it won't change anything in the big picture.
(2) Manual (stick-shift) vs. automatic transmission: How many people in the
US (and many parts of the world) are now driving a stick-shift even it has a
better fuel consumption and performance? Do car manufacturers roll back to
stick-shift when we are having such unbelievable high oil prices or do they
strive to come up other alternatives?
Moral of the example: Most non-techies look for ease-of-use across all
product categories including but not limited to IT products. Again, until
Linux community is willing to face and accept it, it's not going to be the
mainstream.
In summary, I am not saying or implying Linux is not a good OS or Vista is a
better choice. What I have been trying to tell Linux advocates (or
technical professionals for the same matter) is - technology by itself is
not enough for people to use a product.
Your collective efforts will have a much better return if spending on large
OEM's (e.g. Dell, IBM, HP, Acer, etc.) and application and peripheral
providers. Microsoft understood this long long long...time ago, and I still
fail to understand for why Linux community doesn't follow a success story
but insisting on a not-so-good one (a.k.a - Apple).
As always, just my two cents thoughts, and my last post on OS alternative
subject.
Sorry if I offended anyone but it was not my intension.
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:OBgyXvyvHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Please clear the facts.
> What % of new Linux users have never owned a computer?
> What % of new Windows users have never owned a computer?
>
> What is the average computer experience of a new Windows user?
> What is the average computer experience of a new Linux user?
>
> Give us these facts and end the speculation.
> Many Linux advocates seem to base much of what they say on the above being
> equal for both platforms.
> I suspect these differences explain what I NEVER hear Linux advocates say.
>
> Waiting for your facts...
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> news:e4vbqoyvHHA.4132@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Larry Maturo wrote:
>>> Hi Alias,
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>> Fact is that Windows is MUCH more susceptible than Ubuntu and, in the
>>> unlikely case that one's Ubuntu box has become infected, all one need do
>>> is nuke the user, create another one and restore the back up.
>>>
>>> Fact is, you are telling the unwashed masses to use Ubuntu. If they do,
>>> you
>>> can bet they won't have that backup. Also, if your campign succeeds,
>>> then
>>> virus, rootkit, and malware authors will start hitting Linux, so watch
>>> what you
>>> wish for.
>>>
>>> -- Larry Maturo
>>
>> Interesting speculation. Too bad it's only that: speculation.
>>
>> Alias
>>>
>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>> news:eDCvIqwvHHA.4384@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>> You are way too smug regarding how safe you believe Linux/Unix to be..
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the articles below explains how a Linux system can be a virus
>>>>> carrier without the user ever knowing.. this situation is every bit as
>>>>> bad as a Windows system that has been breached.. the others are from
>>>>> different years, but all alerting to the fact that Linux/Unix and MAC
>>>>> are not 100% virus immune..
>>>>>
>>>>> I have yet to come across a 'true' Linux professional who would put
>>>>> their name to the misleading claims made by you.. your anti-MS stance
>>>>> is blinding you to the realities of ANY OS.. that makes you
>>>>> dangerous..
>>>> Care to give me proof that a Linux box has been compromised? Can't?
>>>> Didn't think so. Shall we compare the number of Windows boxes that are
>>>> a part of a bot-herd to Linux? Didn't think so.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is that Windows is MUCH more susceptible than Ubuntu and, in the
>>>> unlikely case that one's Ubuntu box has become infected, all one need
>>>> do is nuke the user, create another one and restore the back up.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eS2gVRwvHHA.3468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>>>>> Alias doesn't know about the history of his operating system of
>>>>>>> choice to know that rootkits were developed for Unix and are 100%
>>>>>>> effective in Linux/Ubuntu.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet there are no reports of this possibility happening so go figure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>
> What % of new Windows users have never owned a computer?
>
> What is the average computer experience of a new Windows user?
> What is the average computer experience of a new Linux user?
I can't help - so I apologize to all first
Jupiter Jones presented some logical and reasonable questions for Linux
community to think about though you may not wish to answer here but Linux
advocates cannot afford to ignore those questions, if Linux really wants to
be a valid "mainstream" alternative.
I meant to write a longer post but decided to make a long story short:
(1) If Linux is going to be a mainstream alternative, the community has to
address those issues such as usability (not with your standards),
application and driver availabilities, just to name a few. Note: Customers
and users won't care about the reasons for not having enough, and all they
care is what are given.
(2) Price is one factor but not the only one. People pay for car insurance
knowing (and hoping) they don't use it for most of the time, but still,
they're willing to pay for it. It's the same logic for many are willing to
buy products and sometime with support even they don't really use it. Sense
of security is one of those factors. We all know search engines and
communities are our friends, but I for one won't count on search engines and
communities as our supports. The point is - price is not the only factor
and refer to (1) for some other considerations.
Let me try for the last time by using two examples to demonstrate
"technology" may not be relevant in some buying decisions, and one is in IT
industry and the other one is in automobile industry:
(1) ERP: SAP is the market leader of enterprise resources planning software
(ERP is the common term) and when it and its partners engage a prospect
(usually enterprise-level customers), they always start with senior business
executives. Anyone has any experience on ERP would know the complexity of
the software, and yet, if senior executives cannot comprehend the use of it
in NON-TECHNICAL terms, none is going to spend multimillions US dollars on
the software. Technologies and software specs won't even be discussed if
the first evaluation won't pass.
Moral of the example: We can spend all the time we have till the end of the
world on discussing and debating technologies but it won't matter much for
the non-tech users and customers who represent the majority of the market.
In particular, Linux community hasn't really spent too much effort in this
area, if any. Until Linux community is willing to face and accept the fact,
it won't change anything in the big picture.
(2) Manual (stick-shift) vs. automatic transmission: How many people in the
US (and many parts of the world) are now driving a stick-shift even it has a
better fuel consumption and performance? Do car manufacturers roll back to
stick-shift when we are having such unbelievable high oil prices or do they
strive to come up other alternatives?
Moral of the example: Most non-techies look for ease-of-use across all
product categories including but not limited to IT products. Again, until
Linux community is willing to face and accept it, it's not going to be the
mainstream.
In summary, I am not saying or implying Linux is not a good OS or Vista is a
better choice. What I have been trying to tell Linux advocates (or
technical professionals for the same matter) is - technology by itself is
not enough for people to use a product.
Your collective efforts will have a much better return if spending on large
OEM's (e.g. Dell, IBM, HP, Acer, etc.) and application and peripheral
providers. Microsoft understood this long long long...time ago, and I still
fail to understand for why Linux community doesn't follow a success story
but insisting on a not-so-good one (a.k.a - Apple).
As always, just my two cents thoughts, and my last post on OS alternative
subject.
Sorry if I offended anyone but it was not my intension.
"Jupiter Jones [MVP]" <jones_jupiter@hotnomail.com> wrote in message
news:OBgyXvyvHHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Please clear the facts.
> What % of new Linux users have never owned a computer?
> What % of new Windows users have never owned a computer?
>
> What is the average computer experience of a new Windows user?
> What is the average computer experience of a new Linux user?
>
> Give us these facts and end the speculation.
> Many Linux advocates seem to base much of what they say on the above being
> equal for both platforms.
> I suspect these differences explain what I NEVER hear Linux advocates say.
>
> Waiting for your facts...
>
> --
> Jupiter Jones [MVP]
> http://www3.telus.net/dandemar
> http://www.dts-l.org
>
>
> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
> news:e4vbqoyvHHA.4132@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>> Larry Maturo wrote:
>>> Hi Alias,
>>>
>>> You wrote:
>>> Fact is that Windows is MUCH more susceptible than Ubuntu and, in the
>>> unlikely case that one's Ubuntu box has become infected, all one need do
>>> is nuke the user, create another one and restore the back up.
>>>
>>> Fact is, you are telling the unwashed masses to use Ubuntu. If they do,
>>> you
>>> can bet they won't have that backup. Also, if your campign succeeds,
>>> then
>>> virus, rootkit, and malware authors will start hitting Linux, so watch
>>> what you
>>> wish for.
>>>
>>> -- Larry Maturo
>>
>> Interesting speculation. Too bad it's only that: speculation.
>>
>> Alias
>>>
>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>> news:eDCvIqwvHHA.4384@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>> Mike Hall - MVP wrote:
>>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>> You are way too smug regarding how safe you believe Linux/Unix to be..
>>>>>
>>>>> One of the articles below explains how a Linux system can be a virus
>>>>> carrier without the user ever knowing.. this situation is every bit as
>>>>> bad as a Windows system that has been breached.. the others are from
>>>>> different years, but all alerting to the fact that Linux/Unix and MAC
>>>>> are not 100% virus immune..
>>>>>
>>>>> I have yet to come across a 'true' Linux professional who would put
>>>>> their name to the misleading claims made by you.. your anti-MS stance
>>>>> is blinding you to the realities of ANY OS.. that makes you
>>>>> dangerous..
>>>> Care to give me proof that a Linux box has been compromised? Can't?
>>>> Didn't think so. Shall we compare the number of Windows boxes that are
>>>> a part of a bot-herd to Linux? Didn't think so.
>>>>
>>>> Fact is that Windows is MUCH more susceptible than Ubuntu and, in the
>>>> unlikely case that one's Ubuntu box has become infected, all one need
>>>> do is nuke the user, create another one and restore the back up.
>>>>
>>>> Alias
>>>>>
>>>>> "Alias" <aka@maskedandanonymous.info> wrote in message
>>>>> news:eS2gVRwvHHA.3468@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>>>>> Richard Urban wrote:
>>>>>>> Alias doesn't know about the history of his operating system of
>>>>>>> choice to know that rootkits were developed for Unix and are 100%
>>>>>>> effective in Linux/Ubuntu.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yet there are no reports of this possibility happening so go figure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alias
>>>