Techniques to get VIRTUAL DESKTOP w PAN on Microsoft Windows

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Virtual desktops for windows

I have run into many people who have this problem. They have old
hardwares which they are satisfied with, such as the PCI cards,
monitors etc. They are upgrading the motherboards/CPU/RAM, but keeping
the rest of the old stuff since it works. They are also upgrading the
OS. Here is one case:

The old NT4.0 was mainly used for CAD programs or general use. It
served well. It has a nice virtual desktop using a matrox millenium
card with 4Meg of RAM, top of the line at that time. It also works
great under linux with the same virtual desktop that supports panning.
This way an economical monitor can provide the performance of a high
end large screen monitor.

There are many reasons for the upgrade of OS such as security, speed,
support for new applications and so on.

We have a number of PC's that use the Matrox Millenium cards with the
MGA-2164W chipset and screen resolution upto 1200x1600. These are
excellent hardwares.

People from Western Europe, Russia and the Eastern Europe cant be
endlessly paying tax to Uncle Sam and Uncle Maple.

The question is this: Is there a way to get these hardwares working in
the newer OS's just as they worked on NT4.0 ? Specifically, the market
has a lot of older cards floating around, and people are still using
these cards.

We know that Linux can make use of ANY of these video cards and make
them work to the best performance under X windows.

Here is a list of approaches for windows :

(1) Take the NT driver and modify it to work with XP. It should be
possible to disassemble the driver, and apply the changes. Ironically,
the latest driver for the legacy product like this at
http://matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/latest/home.php,
ie w2k_582.exe from
ftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/archive/win_2k/2002/w2k_582.exe
and the unistaller pd_unin201.exe from
ftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/utils/pd_unin201.exe
does not work very well.

(2) Use a non-microsoft desktop manager which can make these cards
work, such as Yod'm 3D which works with Vista, Windows 2000 or XP.
However, we are not asking for its sophisticated 3D capability, only a
2D feature for panning.

(3) We know that the LCD's allow panning under windows XP for some
reason, but not everyone wants to change every single of their older
monitors to LCD. One would ideally want to use the Monitors till their
natural death. This is the most ideal, most environmentally friendly
approach. There is no reason to waste
your money of the labor of those who manufactured these hardwares.

Is there a way to fool the windows XP or the matrox driver that the
monitor is an LCD ? Is it an issue of maximum magnification ? How does
the feedback from the mouse pointer crossing the edge give the info to
the OS for an LCD to pan ? Perhaps, this may be the best solution to
allow that specific setting manually to fool the OS or the video card
that an LCD is connected.

(4) There are a number of virtual desktop managers and shells
(different from the virtual desktops provided by the driver software)
which may be able to provide a virtual desktop.

BEGIN QUOTE

Microsoft Windows does not implement virtual desktops at installation
time. Microsoft provides a virtual desktop PowerToy (for Windows XP),
a software-based virtual desktop manager, which simulates many
desktops, by minimizing and maximizing windows in groups, each group
being a different desktop. However, the functionality provided is less
comprehensive than that of many other virtual desktop solutions (e.g.
missing functionality to move windows to another desktop, maintain a
window in a given desktop even when its application bar button
flashes, etc...). Application compatibility problems are common,
because application developers do not expect virtual desktops to be in
use on the Windows platform.

Many desktop shell replacements for Windows, including LiteStep,
bblean, GeoShell, SharpE and many others, support virtual desktops via
optional modules.

END QUOTE

Note, that the microsoft powertoy does not have virtual desktop with
pan feature. That is the most important feature. More details here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_shell_replacement

BEGIN QUOTE

In Windows 95 and later versions of Microsoft Windows, the Windows
shell is by default explorer.exe (in the Windows folder or one of its
subfolders, System32) which displays the icons on the desktop, the
taskbar, the Start menu and the file browser. By default, explorer.exe
runs automatically when Windows starts. Mostly the shell simply
launches other programs on request.

Computer users with the desire can modify explorer.exe extensively. It
is also possible to completely replace explorer.exe with another
shell. Such a desktop shell replacement provides an alternative to the
standard Windows shell. Alternatives such as those below can replace
visual elements and windowing layout on a Microsoft Windows-based
system, provide more options for customization, or use fewer
resources.

END QUOTE


The only problem in the way is the greed of the hardware and software
manufacturers in an unstated conspiracy against the end-users. These
manufacturers insist on controlling our life and forcing us to waste
our money. People should upgrade based on their own desire and
calculation, and not under compulsion from the manufacturers. The
biggest hypocrisy is when these Canadians and Al Gores cry hoarse over
the GLOBAL WARMING. Each monitor thrown away, each video card thrown
away just because a driver was not available or software was not
supporting its basic feature is contribution to global warming. The
processes to make these cards were not only energy intensive but
highly polluting.
 
It seems that the driver is changing the monitor and desktop
resolutions
simultaneously. If you could decouple them, and make the monitor
resolution less than the desktop resolution. The monitor resolution
in LCD has a maximum (not sure). Therefore the driver behaves
differently.
It is quite possible that matox.com has written their drivers in C++
or
with all the attributes in their objects. When they came to complile
it for
XP, they just did not give an option in the interface to it. Thus the
code
hardwired the two values. These values change simultaneously. If they
can be decoupled, then the problem may solve. We know that their NT
drivers did have this virtual desktop feature and it worked
flawlessly.

On Nov 3, 11:25 am, windows.lov...@gmail.com wrote:
> Virtual desktops for windows
>
> I have run into many people who have this problem. They have old
> hardwares which they are satisfied with, such as the PCI cards,
> monitors etc. They are upgrading the motherboards/CPU/RAM, but keeping
> the rest of the old stuff since it works. They are also upgrading the
> OS. Here is one case:
>
> The old NT4.0 was mainly used for CAD programs or general use. It
> served well. It has a nice virtual desktop using a matrox millenium
> card with 4Meg of RAM, top of the line at that time. It also works
> great under linux with the same virtual desktop that supports panning.
> This way an economical monitor can provide the performance of a high
> end large screen monitor.
>
> There are many reasons for the upgrade of OS such as security, speed,
> support for new applications and so on.
>
> We have a number of PC's that use the Matrox Millenium cards with the
> MGA-2164W chipset and screen resolution upto 1200x1600. These are
> excellent hardwares.
>
> People from Western Europe, Russia and the Eastern Europe cant be
> endlessly paying tax to Uncle Sam and Uncle Maple.
>
> The question is this: Is there a way to get these hardwares working in
> the newer OS's just as they worked on NT4.0 ? Specifically, the market
> has a lot of older cards floating around, and people are still using
> these cards.
>
> We know that Linux can make use of ANY of these video cards and make
> them work to the best performance under X windows.
>
> Here is a list of approaches for windows :
>
> (1) Take the NT driver and modify it to work with XP. It should be
> possible to disassemble the driver, and apply the changes. Ironically,
> the latest driver for the legacy product like this athttp://matrox.com/graphics/en/corpo/support/drivers/latest/home.php,
> ie w2k_582.exe fromftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/archive/win_2k/2002/w2k_582.exe
> and the unistaller pd_unin201.exe fromftp://ftp.matrox.com/pub/mga/utils/pd_unin201.exe
> does not work very well.
>
> (2) Use a non-microsoft desktop manager which can make these cards
> work, such as Yod'm 3D which works with Vista, Windows 2000 or XP.
> However, we are not asking for its sophisticated 3D capability, only a
> 2D feature for panning.
>
> (3) We know that the LCD's allow panning under windows XP for some
> reason, but not everyone wants to change every single of their older
> monitors to LCD. One would ideally want to use the Monitors till their
> natural death. This is the most ideal, most environmentally friendly
> approach. There is no reason to waste
> your money of the labor of those who manufactured these hardwares.
>
> Is there a way to fool the windows XP or the matrox driver that the
> monitor is an LCD ? Is it an issue of maximum magnification ? How does
> the feedback from the mouse pointer crossing the edge give the info to
> the OS for an LCD to pan ? Perhaps, this may be the best solution to
> allow that specific setting manually to fool the OS or the video card
> that an LCD is connected.
>
> (4) There are a number of virtual desktop managers and shells
> (different from the virtual desktops provided by the driver software)
> which may be able to provide a virtual desktop.
>
> BEGIN QUOTE
>
> Microsoft Windows does not implement virtual desktops at installation
> time. Microsoft provides a virtual desktop PowerToy (for Windows XP),
> a software-based virtual desktop manager, which simulates many
> desktops, by minimizing and maximizing windows in groups, each group
> being a different desktop. However, the functionality provided is less
> comprehensive than that of many other virtual desktop solutions (e.g.
> missing functionality to move windows to another desktop, maintain a
> window in a given desktop even when its application bar button
> flashes, etc...). Application compatibility problems are common,
> because application developers do not expect virtual desktops to be in
> use on the Windows platform.
>
> Many desktop shell replacements for Windows, including LiteStep,
> bblean, GeoShell, SharpE and many others, support virtual desktops via
> optional modules.
>
> END QUOTE
>
> Note, that the microsoft powertoy does not have virtual desktop with
> pan feature. That is the most important feature. More details here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_desktop
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_shell_replacement
>
> BEGIN QUOTE
>
> In Windows 95 and later versions of Microsoft Windows, the Windows
> shell is by default explorer.exe (in the Windows folder or one of its
> subfolders, System32) which displays the icons on the desktop, the
> taskbar, the Start menu and the file browser. By default, explorer.exe
> runs automatically when Windows starts. Mostly the shell simply
> launches other programs on request.
>
> Computer users with the desire can modify explorer.exe extensively. It
> is also possible to completely replace explorer.exe with another
> shell. Such a desktop shell replacement provides an alternative to the
> standard Windows shell. Alternatives such as those below can replace
> visual elements and windowing layout on a Microsoft Windows-based
> system, provide more options for customization, or use fewer
> resources.
>
> END QUOTE
>
> The only problem in the way is the greed of the hardware and software
> manufacturers in an unstated conspiracy against the end-users. These
> manufacturers insist on controlling our life and forcing us to waste
> our money. People should upgrade based on their own desire and
> calculation, and not under compulsion from the manufacturers. The
> biggest hypocrisy is when these Canadians and Al Gores cry hoarse over
> the GLOBAL WARMING. Each monitor thrown away, each video card thrown
> away just because a driver was not available or software was not
> supporting its basic feature is contribution to global warming. The
> processes to make these cards were not only energy intensive but
> highly polluting.
 
<windows.lovers@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1194117949.789013.111910@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...

> We have a number of PC's that use the Matrox Millenium cards with the
> MGA-2164W chipset and screen resolution upto 1200x1600. These are
> excellent hardwares. . . .
> The question is this: Is there a way to get these hardwares working in
> the newer OS's just as they worked on NT4.0 ? Specifically, the market
> has a lot of older cards floating around, and people are still using
> these cards.


Yes, if neither MS nor the hardware manufacturer does not provide
drivers for MS Vista you can write your own drivers, if dissatisfied
with Vista compatibility or legacy procedures, and if you buy the
necessary information from MS

> We know that Linux can make use of ANY of these video cards and make
> them work to the best performance under X windows.


Have you not just answered your own question?

> Each monitor thrown away, each video card thrown
> away just because a driver was not available or software was not
> supporting its basic feature is contribution to global warming. The
> processes to make these cards were not only energy intensive but
> highly polluting.


If you want to make a calculus of the carbon cost of (say) my
upstairs CRT monitor, just discarded after approx. 15 years'
use, you have to offset the date when that "contribution to global
warming" was made (Japan approx. 1970) and compare the net
cost with that of the replacement unit (Dutch-made approx. 2000,
also CRT) and quantify also the difference in video quality as well
as manufacture and operating costs of LED technology, so far
not installed. Such methods should work for people who
rationally prefer "trailing edge" hardware (oldest and cheapest
fit for the planned purpose) as well as new customers, i.e.
would be a valuable service to "Windows lovers."

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)
 
Your reply was useless. you did not contribute any useful idea as I
did
several numbered suggestions and links.

On Nov 3, 12:40 pm, "Don Phillipson"
<d.phillipsonSPAMBL...@rogers.com> wrote:
> <windows.lov...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1194117949.789013.111910@y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com...
>
> > We have a number of PC's that use the Matrox Millenium cards with the
> > MGA-2164W chipset and screen resolution upto 1200x1600. These are
> > excellent hardwares. . . .
> > The question is this: Is there a way to get these hardwares working in
> > the newer OS's just as they worked on NT4.0 ? Specifically, the market
> > has a lot of older cards floating around, and people are still using
> > these cards.

>
> Yes, if neither MS nor the hardware manufacturer does not provide
> drivers for MS Vista you can write your own drivers, if dissatisfied
> with Vista compatibility or legacy procedures, and if you buy the
> necessary information from MS
>
> > We know that Linux can make use of ANY of these video cards and make
> > them work to the best performance under X windows.

>
> Have you not just answered your own question?
>
> > Each monitor thrown away, each video card thrown
> > away just because a driver was not available or software was not
> > supporting its basic feature is contribution to global warming. The
> > processes to make these cards were not only energy intensive but
> > highly polluting.

>
> If you want to make a calculus of the carbon cost of (say) my
> upstairs CRT monitor, just discarded after approx. 15 years'
> use, you have to offset the date when that "contribution to global
> warming" was made (Japan approx. 1970) and compare the net
> cost with that of the replacement unit (Dutch-made approx. 2000,
> also CRT) and quantify also the difference in video quality as well
> as manufacture and operating costs of LED technology, so far
> not installed. Such methods should work for people who
> rationally prefer "trailing edge" hardware (oldest and cheapest
> fit for the planned purpose) as well as new customers, i.e.
> would be a valuable service to "Windows lovers."
>
> --
> Don Phillipson
> Carlsbad Springs
> (Ottawa, Canada)
 
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