Hard drive recovery - better to COPY or use ACRONIS? pls help

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daviddschool

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I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full

view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

method I am already using?
 
"daviddschool" wrote in message

news:60fe2255-238e-4efd-a6e1-5d3814797262@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...

> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full

> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

> method I am already using?




I always gasp when I read about posters who wait for a disaster to happen

before they review their backup policy, e.g. by using Acronis Backup. An

external hard disk in a USB case would cost very little and would make an

excellent backup medium.



If your disk makes clicking noises then it is probably too late for Acronis.

It will most likely terminate when it trips over disk errors. Here are a

couple of alternatives:

a) Connect the disk as a slave disk to some other Windows PC.

b) Boot the machine with a Bart PE boot CD.



In each case you could then use robocopy.exe to salvage your files. This

tool requires familiarity with the Command Console. Ask a friend to assist

you if this is beyond your current expierience.
 
In

news:60fe2255-238e-4efd-a6e1-5d3814797262@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com,

daviddschool typed:

> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one

> drive now close to death - ticking and having issues

> reading. I have a full view of the files and I have been

> trying desparately to COPY (using windows file explorer) to

> another drive the files that are still accessible - but I

> started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS backup

> instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I

> get all I can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better

> way of trying then the method I am already using?




Most definitely! It'll also back up the operating system,

which copying cannot do because it can't copy files that are

"in use".
 
daviddschool wrote:

> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full

> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

> method I am already using?




On the one hand, you never know how close to death the drive is. You could

turn off the power just once more on the PC, and never be able to access

the drive again. So time is of the essence.



File by file copying is likely no different, no matter what tool does it.

The tool will use the file system, to find a pointer to each file, then

read it. That requires some amount of head movement. The long time for

each file, could be caused by some sectors requiring a large number

of reads, before there is a good CRC on the readback.



A program like Microsoft Robocopy, can copy the files from one drive to

another. And it has parameters to control retries and the like.



robocopy F:\ L:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v /log:robocopy_f_to_l.log



(I think there might be a copy of version XP026 in here. Not sure.)

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.11.utilityspotlight.aspx



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocopy



The other option, is various versions of "dd", to do a sector by sector

copy. The only advantage of that, is the copy is sequential, with

minimal head movement.



I would start, by doing a bad block scan with HDTune from HDTune.com .

If the display shows all green blocks, then the disk is relatively

undamaged. If you are seeing CRC errors, then there is damage.



http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe



Depending on the extent of the damage, you might want to investigate an

option in here.



http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk



If the disk was "all green blocks", you could use the port of "dd" available here.



http://www.chrysocome.net/dd



To use the Chrysocome version, it would look something like this, to copy

the entire hard drive (MBR and its partition table, all partitions), to a second,

equal or slightly larger disk. As far as I know, that "dd" has no provision

for handling errored sectors. Partition0 here, means "the whole disk". The

other numbered partitions, represent the primary partitions on the disk. I

don't know if the program has a mechanism to handle extended (logical)

partitions or not. I've never tried that.



dd --list # this gives the names of the partitions/disks



dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0



That command would copy Harddisk0 to Harddisk1. You figure out which is

which, based on size information. This utility can show you the four

primary partition entries, and you can correlate the info from the two

environments between them.



ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PTEDIT32.zip



http://www.vistax64.com/attachments...n-partiton-recovery-dell-xps-420-dell-tbl.gif



When copying individual partitions, I sometimes have permissions problems

with "dd", but I would expect the whole disk copy to work.



If the disk was showing errors, then you'd need something like "ddrescue"

which truncates the time allocated to read a sector. But that would require

booting into Linux, and perhaps by the time you do that, the disk could

be dead.



The only other advice I can give, is time is of the essence. Do whatever

you can to get the important files. I had a dying disk one day, I was tired

and decided to turn off the computer for the night. The next day, the

disk was dead, and I had no further opportunity to do anything. So I

would recommend not power cycling the computer, using USB external

enclosures as a means to adding storage capacity without shutting down

and so on.



If the bad partition is C:, then to copy it, you might have no choice but

to reboot into some other OS to make a copy. I have WinXP and Win2K dual boot

here, and if I need to copy the WinXP disk, I work on it in Win2K. The

file backup tools, could use their own non-WinXP environment to do the

copy. There is also Volume Shadow Service running on your machine, which

supports making copies of a live environment, but I don't know if it has

any limitations as to what cannot be copied or not. So copying the C:

partition can have its issues and risks (in terms of needing to reboot

over and over etc).



For rescue, I recommend at least two spare disks, one for a simple

image copy (dd), the other for any file copy attempts. You should

make sure you have enough space to store the output, before going further.

And don't try to write to the damaged disk.



Good luck,

Paul
 
On Apr 18, 5:22 pm, Paul wrote:

> daviddschool wrote:

> > I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

> > close to death - ticking and having issues reading.  I have a full

> > view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

> > windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

> > accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

> > backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

> > smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

> > can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

> > method I am already using?


>

> On the one hand, you never know how close to death the drive is. You could

> turn off the power just once more on the PC, and never be able to access

> the drive again. So time is of the essence.

>

> File by file copying is likely no different, no matter what tool does it.

> The tool will use the file system, to find a pointer to each file, then

> read it. That requires some amount of head movement. The long time for

> each file, could be caused by some sectors requiring a large number

> of reads, before there is a good CRC on the readback.

>

> A program like Microsoft Robocopy, can copy the files from one drive to

> another. And it has parameters to control retries and the like.

>

> robocopy F:\ L:\ /mir /copy:datso /dcopy:t /r:3 /w:2 /zb /np /tee /v /log:robocopy_f_to_l.log

>

> (I think there might be a copy of version XP026 in here. Not sure.)http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/2006.11.utilityspotlight....

>

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robocopy

>

> The other option, is various versions of "dd", to do a sector by sector

> copy. The only advantage of that, is the copy is sequential, with

> minimal head movement.

>

> I would start, by doing a bad block scan with HDTune from HDTune.com .

> If the display shows all green blocks, then the disk is relatively

> undamaged. If you are seeing CRC errors, then there is damage.

>

> http://www.hdtune.com/files/hdtune_255.exe

>

> Depending on the extent of the damage, you might want to investigate an

> option in here.

>

> http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Damaged_Hard_Disk

>

> If the disk was "all green blocks", you could use the port of "dd" available here.

>

> http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

>

> To use the Chrysocome version, it would look something like this, to copy

> the entire hard drive (MBR and its partition table, all partitions), to asecond,

> equal or slightly larger disk. As far as I know, that "dd" has no provision

> for handling errored sectors. Partition0 here, means "the whole disk". The

> other numbered partitions, represent the primary partitions on the disk. I

> don't know if the program has a mechanism to handle extended (logical)

> partitions or not. I've never tried that.

>

> dd --list                       # this gives the names of the partitions/disks

>

> dd if=\\?\Device\Harddisk0\Partition0 of=\\?\Device\Harddisk1\Partition0

>

> That command would copy Harddisk0 to Harddisk1. You figure out which is

> which, based on size information. This utility can show you the four

> primary partition entries, and you can correlate the info from the two

> environments between them.

>

> ftp://ftp.symantec.com/public/english_us_canada/tools/pq/utilities/PT...

>

> http://www.vistax64.com/attachments/vista-installation-setup/7308d122...

>

> When copying individual partitions, I sometimes have permissions problems

> with "dd", but I would expect the whole disk copy to work.

>

> If the disk was showing errors, then you'd need something like "ddrescue"

> which truncates the time allocated to read a sector. But that would require

> booting into Linux, and perhaps by the time you do that, the disk could

> be dead.

>

> The only other advice I can give, is time is of the essence. Do whatever

> you can to get the important files. I had a dying disk one day, I was tired

> and decided to turn off the computer for the night. The next day, the

> disk was dead, and I had no further opportunity to do anything. So I

> would recommend not power cycling the computer, using USB external

> enclosures as a means to adding storage capacity without shutting down

> and so on.

>

> If the bad partition is C:, then to copy it, you might have no choice but

> to reboot into some other OS to make a copy. I have WinXP and Win2K dual boot

> here, and if I need to copy the WinXP disk, I work on it in Win2K. The

> file backup tools, could use their own non-WinXP environment to do the

> copy. There is also Volume Shadow Service running on your machine, which

> supports making copies of a live environment, but I don't know if it has

> any limitations as to what cannot be copied or not. So copying the C:

> partition can have its issues and risks (in terms of needing to reboot

> over and over etc).

>

> For rescue, I recommend at least two spare disks, one for a simple

> image copy (dd), the other for any file copy attempts. You should

> make sure you have enough space to store the output, before going further..

> And don't try to write to the damaged disk.

>

> Good luck,

>     Paul




Right now, I am in the process of "file X file" recovery - a long and

laborious process, but at least it is reading the files. I have not

had an error yet, but the clicking is persisting and worrying. I

don't know why the power outage affected my slave drive, but there you

go, it did.

The drive that died/dying is my spare drive, also my backup of my

master drive. Over time I have thrown quite a few files on their as

well as my master drive backup, so I would like to get those. The

drive is reading fine, albeit slowly and ticking. I have checked some

of the files I have already recovered and they all work so far -

fingers crossed. I am heading to the bigger files now, might have to

keep this computer running all night to ensure I don't lose this mojo.

i want to try some of the methods you suggested after I attempt to get

all of the files the way I am doing it now. If I get the majority of

them, I will then try to format and recover the drive, using it as a

spare, spare spare drive.
 
daviddschool wrote:



>I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

>close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full

>view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

>windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

>accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

>backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

>smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

>can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

>method I am already using?

>

>




Oh no. Probably it is too late to do anything now I suggest continue

finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now

because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is

going to save you any time. Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good

if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as

you seem to suggest here!



You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a

new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications

from scratch. Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD

and store it safely somewhere else. Then copy your data and let your

backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same

on a weekly basis.



There is no other way to protect yourself. that piggy by the name of

Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for

fresh air.



hth



--

THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY

KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR

IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND

FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA

OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER

INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF

BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS

ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH

DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL

DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.



Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.
 
On Apr 18, 5:54 pm, LD55ZRA wrote:

> daviddschool wrote:

> >I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

> >close to death - ticking and having issues reading.  I have a full

> >view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

> >windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

> >accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

> >backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

> >smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

> >can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

> >method I am already using?


>

> Oh no.  Probably it is too late to do anything now   I suggest continue

> finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now

> because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is

> going to save you any time.  Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good

> if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as

> you seem to suggest here!

>

> You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a

> new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications

> from scratch.  Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD

> and store it safely somewhere else.  Then copy your data and let your

> backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same

> on a weekly basis.

>

> There is no other way to protect yourself.  that piggy by the name of

> Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for

> fresh air.

>

> hth

>

> --

> THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY

> KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR

> IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND

> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA

> OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER

> INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF

> BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES,  EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS

> ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH

> DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR

> LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL

> DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

>

> Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.




Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem

to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few

more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to

be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't

even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.
 
daviddschool wrote:

> On Apr 18, 5:54 pm, LD55ZRA wrote:

>> daviddschool wrote:

>>> I had a power failure in the neighborhood and thus my one drive now

>>> close to death - ticking and having issues reading. I have a full

>>> view of the files and I have been trying desparately to COPY (using

>>> windows file explorer) to another drive the files that are still

>>> accessible - but I started to think that maybe I should use ACRONIS

>>> backup instead - the copying of files is taking hours even for the

>>> smallest ones, and I don't want the drive to die before I get all I

>>> can, so do you think ACRONIS would be a better way of trying then the

>>> method I am already using?


>>

>> Oh no. Probably it is too late to do anything now I suggest continue

>> finishing copying your data using Windows Explorer as you are doing now

>> because there is absolutely no guarantee that installing Acronis now is

>> going to save you any time. Acronis (or even Norton Ghost) is only good

>> if it is doing the backup regularly rather than once in a life time as

>> you seem to suggest here!

>>

>> You should copy your data on an external HD and reformat or install a

>> new HD then reinstall Windows (with SP3 if XP) and other applications

>> from scratch. Then when you have done this, create an image of the HD

>> and store it safely somewhere else. Then copy your data and let your

>> backup program does all the backup once and schedule it to do the same

>> on a weekly basis.

>>

>> There is no other way to protect yourself. that piggy by the name of

>> Pegasus is talking completely rubbish because he is still gasping for

>> fresh air.

>>

>> hth

>>

>> --

>> THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY

>> KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR

>> IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND

>> FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA

>> OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER

>> INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF

>> BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS

>> ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH

>> DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR

>> LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL

>> DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.

>>

>> Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.


>

> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem

> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few

> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to

> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't

> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.




Another possibility - albeit may be a remote one - would be to put the drive

in the refrigerator or freezer to see if that could help, if you've

exhausted all other options. I heard about this somewhere for failing

drives, but you should research that first, however. Perhaps someone else

here has had some experience with it.
 
daviddschool wrote:

>

>

> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem

> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few

> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to

> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't

> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.






How about booting up in safe mode? What you want at this stage is

to get a backup of your data and so Bill & Co's idea is a good one

and also try booting up in safe mode and see if it is recognized.



Alternative is to get an external enclosure for HD like this:







hth







--

THE INFORMATION IS PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY

KIND. LD55ZRA DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, EITHER EXPRESSED OR

IMPLIED, INCLUDING THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND

FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. IN NO EVENT SHALL LD55ZRA

OR ITS ASSOCIATES BE LIABLE FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER

INCLUDING DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, LOSS OF

BUSINESS PROFITS OR SPECIAL DAMAGES, EVEN IF LD55ZRA OR ITS

ASSOCIATES HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH

DAMAGES. SOME STATES DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR

LIMITATION OF LIABILITY FOR CONSEQUENTIAL OR INCIDENTAL

DAMAGES SO THE FOREGOING LIMITATION MAY NOT APPLY.



Copyright LD55ZRA 2010.
 
daviddschool wrote:



>

> Well it finally gave up in the middle of copying a file. I can't seem

> to get it to be recognized now. This sucks. I was hoping for a few

> more files. Trying other things to get it to go, but nothing seems to

> be working. Disk Management doesn't see it. Easy recovery doesn't

> even see the drive. It is warm and whirring, but it is not showing up.




Toss the model number of the hard drive into Google or some other

search engine. Some hard drives, have characteristic failure modes.

Some failure modes are related to badly written firmware. In some

cases, the drive can be recovered by the end user, using things

like a (TTL level) serial cable and connection to the jumper pins.

You really need to research the model number, to see if your

failure mode is a popular one for that model. In some cases,

there are solutions that don't involve data recovery specialists.



The information below track 0 is probably gone, and that is

why the drive is no longer responding. The drive has to

at least be able to load the heads onto the platter surface,

so if the head assembly was broken, or the platter would not

spin, that is one level of failure. But the drive also needs to

read some stuff off the platter, before it can talk to the

computer, and it is likely that the info below track 0 that

the disk needs, is gone.



But Google the model number first, and see if there is an

easy fix for your symptoms.



The "freezer" treatment for disks, is reserved for a time

when you're done with the disk, and have given up. So it's a

last ditch recovery procedure. If you plan on sending the

drive to a data recovery specialist, then don't do the

freezer thing. If you damage the head assembly by using

the freezer, the data recovery company will charge a

lot of money to open up the drive. They like easy fixes

they can do without opening the drive.



Paul
 
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