>> "Thomas M." wrote in message
>> news:e95io$fxKHA.5576@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>> XP Pro with SP2
>>>
>>> Sorry about the length of this post. I simply wanted to provide as much
>>> background information on the problem as possible.
>>>
>>> I've recently been fighting a problem on my Mom's computer. The machine
>>> periodically freezes (There is no blue screen at this point). Sometimes
>>> it will run a couple of hours and other times it will run only 10 or 15
>>> minutes before freezing. When it freezes the only option is to power
>>> off and restart. On the restart the machine will run Chkdsk, which it
>>> sometimes is unable to complete. It behaves this way with Safe Mode as
>>> well. I was able to take a look at the event log and saw a bunch of
>>> hard disk errors, one of which indicated that the driver is reporting an
>>> imminent hard drive failure, which I can believe given the behavior of
>>> the machine.
>>>
>>> I ordered a new 500 GB hard drive, but since my Mom's machine uses SATA
>>> and my machine used IDE, the only way I had to initialize and format the
>>> drive was to install it as a secondary drive in the problem machine. I
>>> was able to initialize and format the drive. I then inserted an XP SP2
>>> installation CD and attempted to install XP to the new drive. The
>>> initial steps of the setup program ran, but before it got to the part
>>> where you select the volume on which to install XP, the setup program
>>> blue screened. I was not able to get the new hard drive to be recognized
>>> by the machine after that happened.
>>>
>>> So I thought that maybe the problem was a memory chip, drive controller,
>>> or even the motherboard in the problem machine. To eliminate those
>>> possibilities I purchased an external drive enclosure that would allow
>>> my machine with IDE drives to use a SATA drive via a USB cable. But the
>>> new hard drive was not recognized in the drive enclosure either.
>>> Thinking that maybe I just had some bad luck and got a defective drive,
>>> I took the drive back to the store and exchanged it for another drive.
>>>
>>> I then hooked up the new drive to my machine using the drive enclosure.
>>> Again, I initialized and formatted the drive. I then attempted to
>>> install XP SP2--using a different CD this time--and again the setup
>>> program blue screened. So, with an entirely different machine,
>>> different hard drive, and different installation CD, I got the same
>>> result--a blue screen during installation.
>>>
>>> Now I am wondering if I am hitting a bug in the XP installation process.
>>> Maybe it doesn't like installing to a secondary drive, or to a USB
>>> drive, or maybe it doesn't like hard drive partitions larger than a
>>> certain size or something. At this point, my only option is to install
>>> the blank hard drive into the problem machine as the only drive and try
>>> installing again. I did not do that initially because the problem had
>>> not been diagnosed for certain and I wanted to eliminate the possibility
>>> of memory chip, drive controller, and circuit board problems, but I
>>> don't see where I have any choice now.
>>>
>>> Can anyone explain why the setup program would blue screen in two
>>> different machine machines using different hard drives and installation
>>> CDs?
>>>
>>> --Tom
>>
>> Tom later adds...
>>> Yes, the new drive that I purchased is SATA. However, the XP
>>> installation CDs that I have been using were created on an older machine
>>> with IDE drives. I have SP3 on a CD, but I don't think it's bootable.
>>> My plan was to install XP with SP2 and then immediately patch to SP3,
>>> but if the blue screens are the result of a SATA driver issue, then
>>> maybe I will need to slipstream SP3 as you suggested. I did not even
>>> think about that. Thanks for the tip!
>>>
>>> I originally thought of cloning, but decided against it because I
>>> thought that might clone corrupt files onto the new drive. I don't have
>>> a lot of experience with cloning, so I really don't know if that's
>>> something to worry about or not, but I decided not to risk it.
>>>
>>> I agree that my best option at this point seems to be installing the new
>>> SATA drive as primary and then installing XP direct to the new drive. I
>>> avoided that at first because I wasn't entirely convinced that the
>>> existing hard drive was the problem. I even considered that the drive
>>> could be getting zapped by power somehow, which is why I didn't want to
>>> risk a new drive in the system until I felt more comfortable that other
>>> hardware components had been eliminated from the list of suspects. That
>>> seems to be the case now, so I'm more comfortable with putting the new
>>> drive into the machine.
>>>
>>> --Tom
> "Anna" wrote in message
> news:%23oNTXcixKHA.3408@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
>> Tom...
>> First - taking the problem with your inability to install the XP OS using
>> *your* PC...
>> The HDD was installed as a USB-connected device and ordinarily the XP OS
>> cannot be installed on a USB-connected HDD. (There's at least one
>> exception to performing this "feat", but it's not relevant in this
>> situation).
>>
>> With respect to your mom's machine...
>>
>> It's possible that the problem you describe is hardware-related but
>> that's not definitive by any means.
>>
>> Re your attempt to install the OS onto that 500 GB HDD...
>>
>> It's generally best *not* to partition/format the HDD prior to
>> undertaking the XP OS setup program. The partitioning/formatting process
>> is best undertaken as an integral part of the OS installation (setup)
>> process. But (usually) there's no real harm in partitioning/formatting
>> the disk prior to the setup process.
>>
>> We're assuming that the new HDD was properly connected to the appropriate
>> SATA (first) connector on the motherboard and that the old HDD (together
>> with any other storage device(s)) was disconnected from the machine. And
>> that the disk's power/data cables were securely connected.
>>
>> You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the
>> setup process where one would normally select the partition on which to
>> install the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and
>> always with the identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are
>> *always* installed apparently without a problem and you get to the
>> "Welcome..." screen without any problems, yes? And when you then press
>> the Enter key to install the OS, no error message(s) at that point are
>> forthcoming, yes?
>>
>> What I'm trying to get at re the above paragraph is that you're certain
>> that you do *not* get a message at the beginning of the setup process
>> that "XP cannot find any hard disks installed" (or words to that effect),
>> right? So that all you get is that BSOD? Any info on that "blue screen"
>> that's a clue as to what the problem is?
>>
>> It's doubtful whether any SATA controller driver issue is involved here.
>> If that were the case you would get the message mentioned in the above
>> paragraph.
>>
>> Re your last post...
>> The fact that your XP OS installation CD was "created" on an IDE (PATA)
>> HDD is of no significance. But what do you mean by "created"? The CD is
>> not an original MS commercially-issued XP OS CD? Or do you mean "created"
>> in the sense that you slipstreamed SP2 onto a CD to "create" an XP OS
>> installation CD containing SP2?
>>
>> I think you're right about foregoing the disk-cloning process at this
>> point. You've got to first resolve this issue as to why you're unable to
>> fresh-install the OS onto the new HDD. Once that problem has been
>> resolved, then you can consider a disk-cloning process assuming you're
>> not dealing with a corrupted already-installed OS on the old HDD.
>>
>> Now as I re:read your last post I'm at a loss to understand your final
>> paragraph where you say "I agree that my best option at this point seems
>> to be installing the new SATA drive as primary and then installing XP
>> direct to the new drive. I avoided that at first because I wasn't
>> entirely convinced that the existing hard drive was the problem".
>>
>> But wasn't (isn't) that the problem you've related, i.e., that you
>> attempted to install the XP OS onto that drive in your mother's PC but
>> couldn't do so because of that "blue screen"?
>>
>> Sorry, I guess I'm a little slow today. I now realize that the old HDD
>> was apparently connected at the time of your attempt to install the OS
>> onto the new HDD. Is that right? As I inferred above it's always best
>> practice (whenever practical) to disconnect all storage devices, HDDs,
>> flash drives, etc. when installing the OS. Anyway, hopefully you should
>> be able to fresh-install the OS onto the 500 GB HDD. Again, install it to
>> the first SATA connector on the motherboard. Then, of course, work with
>> that drive to determine whether the "blue screen" problem continues to
>> exist. If it does, then the problem would appear to be hardware related.
>>
>> In the meantime you might want to check out the old HDD with the HDD
>> diagnostic utility usually available via a download from the disk's
>> manufacturer.
>> Anna
"Thomas M." wrote in message
news:O632wP8xKHA.2436@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Anna,
>
> I'll try to reply to as many of your questions as possible.
>
> The symptom with my mom's PC is that it periodically freezes. When this
> happens there are no error messages and the keyboard and mouse stop
> responding, so the only option is to power off. My first gut reaction is
> that there is an issue with a memory chip or slot, or maybe the
> motherboard. The reason that I started to focus on the HD is that I found
> error messages in the Event log indicating that the HD is in danger of
> imminent failure and should be replaced immediately. I took that message
> at face value and immediately backed up the data to an SD card (the only
> option I had at that moment). I've learned not to press my luck with HD
> issues, so I purchased a new HD as a replacement.
>
> As a quick aside, I have since learned that the original HD is indeed in
> bad shape. I ran chkdsk and picked up all kinds of errors. Chkdsk was
> able to fix them all, but the sure number of errors does not bode well for
> the overall health of the original HD. Still, I can't help but feel that
> there is something else going on. In fact, maybe the HD problem was
> *caused* by a deeper hardware issue.
>
> My first effort to install XP to the new HD was with the original HD still
> in the system as the primary drive and the new HD as secondary. This is
> the first time that I've ever attempted that. Usually I just pull the
> failing HD, insert the new one, let the setup program handle formatting,
> and call it good. However, since the original HD still limps along I
> thought that if I could install the OS to the new HD connected as a
> secondary drive that I could then drag and drop data over and be done.
> Plus, I kind of wanted to try installing the OS to a secondary drive just
> because I had never tried that before.
>
> When the installation blue screened I thought maybe that was caused by a
> deeper problem with the machine (memory chip, motherboard, power, etc.)
> and that I could get around that by connecting the new HD to another
> machine and installing the OS that way, and then just swapping out the
> drives in my mom's machine. The problem with that is that my machine uses
> IDE drives so the only option I had for connecting the new SATA drive to
> my older IDE machine was with a USB drive enclosure. I didn't know if
> that would work, but I thought I'd give it a try. The XP setup program
> does allow me to select the new HD when it's connected as a USB drive, but
> I haven't been able to get that option to work.
>
> I then researched the causes of blue screens during XP installations, and
> the causes seem to run from a bad installation CD to problems with memory,
> memory slots, power, etc. I have a couple of different installation CDs
> that I tried just to rule out the possibility of a bad CD. I do have an
> original XP Pro CD (which I also tried and with the same results), but for
> the most part the CDs that I've been using are disks that I made with
> slipstreamed service packs. My reference to having made the CDs on a
> machine using IDE drives was only to indicate that the CDs are 2 or 3
> years old, and therefore may not contain SATA drivers. I realize now that
> I was not clear on that point, and I've come to the conclusion that the
> issue is not with SATA drivers anyway.
>
> As for the content of the blue screen, it just indicates that there was a
> problem and lists some basic troubleshooting steps, like running chkdsk,
> check the drive connections and power cables, etc. I've swapped out
> internal hard drives hundreds of times and so I know to check all that
> stuff. All the connections are solid. There's something else going on
> here.
>
> The latest news is that I installed the new HD in my mom's machine as the
> primary drive and removed the old HD entirely, and then tried to install
> XP to the new HD. Again, it blue screened on me. So I thought that I
> would try to eliminate the memory chips and slots as a source of the
> problem. The system has two 1 GB chips and I tried the installation with
> each chip installed individually and with both installed, and I rotated
> them between slots as well. After each change the XP installation blue
> screened. So now I am thinking that the problem is with the power supply
> (Maybe it's not producing a smooth flow of power) or the motherboard.
>
> On the plus side, I found that there are 169 days left on the warranty.
> Since it doesn't seem like just a HD replacement at this point, I've
> encouraged my mom to have the machine fixed under warranty.
>
> --Tom
Tom:
Responding to your latest post in no particular order...
(Since you've indicated your mom's machine is still under warranty perhaps
it probably is best to return the machine for service under that warranty
rather than pursue the matter further on your end. So the following is
simply for informational purposes.)
1. In our experience, as I previously indicated, (with the exception of a
few rather extroardinary exceptions which have no relevancy re this issue),
the XP OS cannot be *directly* installed on a USB-connected external HDD.
The fact that the motherboard's BIOS indicates a capability to boot from a
USB-connected device is irrelevant in this situation, again, in our
experience.
2. Re your mom's (problem) machine and your unsuccessful attempt to
fresh-install the XP OS onto the new HDD...
With respect to the "blue screen" problem you mention during the setup
process. Would you specifically respond to the question I raised in my
previous post, to wit...
You've indicated that the system "blue screened" at the point of the setup
process where one would normally select the partition on which to install
the OS. Can we assume you've repeated the setup process and always with the
identical result? In other words the XP "setup" files are *always* installed
apparently without a problem and you get to the "Welcome..." screen without
any problems, yes? And when you then press the Enter key to install the OS,
no error message(s) at that point are forthcoming, yes?
Do you see what I'm trying to get at here? It you got the BSOD *always* at
the same point that you previously indicated, i.e., at the point where you
had the option to install the OS on a specific partition, it's hard to
imagine that a hardware issue is involved here (although that's always a
possibility however unusual). On the other hand if the BSOD appeared at
different points when you (repeatedly) attempted a fresh-install of the OS,
that would tend to indicate the possibility of a hardware-related problem,
possibly a defective PSU as you suspect. Naturally this assumes you're not
dealing with a defective HDD or some other defective component.
Anna